kreg jig stair treads

I’ve included my comments and observations on the nuances involved with this scribing process below. This explanation and picture is priceless! in the vocational public school system. I don’t do much of this kind of work but it’s a trick worth knowing and holding onto. The wall and door frame are in the way when I start to position my board on the wall. One thing that always helps those of us in the trades is a common language. WOW! Any variation in tread height and depth will be transferred directly to the skirt board automatically. Oh, and by the way, he always used hand tools when he demonstrated it. (In England!). Picture Frames - Pocket hole joinery gives you exceptionally tight mitered picture frame joints without difficult corner-clamping. Thanks so much for the great article, which I am sure will be utilized someday soon in a future customers home. I will inform the customer of this and actually try to store the material at their house for a week to acclimate if possible. Most carpenters never even consider scribing a skirt board to a finished set of stairs. Had I never read this article, I might have had much anxiety about scribing in a skirt board, if that’s the way it played out. But pocket hole joinery isn't just for cabinet making. It made the rest of the cutting very easy. We have carpeted, already-finished stairs that I already added a chair rail to but it didn’t look right to do board and batten while not having the bottom anchored to something else. I was thinking to cut the board up top to butt to the door trim and mark my treads. Tim. I set the skirt in place a few inches shy of its final position, and slide the skirt as far as I can into its final position to confirm all looks right. Carl Hagstrom graduated from Williamson Trade School in 1974, and he has been involved in residential construction-related activities ever since. Sun: 9:00am to 6:00pm. Thank You. No different than any other type of scribing. Understandably many would rather a lower cost but if I am paying for 10K sq ft home a couple hundred dollars for the quality doesn’t seem like a bad trade off. This is what I got/where I’m at. Todd Murdock Thank you for sharing. Wide x 94 in. Just seems as if you would have to reset your scribe point with each tread. The real beauty of the Kreg pocket hole joinery system is that it allows you to securely and permanently join materials without the precision milling operations required by other techniques. Rockler offers weather-treated screws from Kreg made just for the purpose. The superior strength of a pocket hole joint has actually been proven. Excellent article. It is impossible to scribe both axes cleanly in one operation. After making the first bottom cut do you go back and modify/adjust the tread layout to match, then the risers? thanks for taking the time to put this article together, it has helped me no end, ive been worrying about doing this job at home and now i have the technique i feel confident. The clearance hole aims the screw at a sharp angle so that it can take a solid hold the adjoining material without popping up through the surface of the wood. I’m going to have to read the first article but I just got it, along with the comment from Kirby that it’s scribed to each relative part. For those situations, you had to hold the scribers at a 45º angle, and scribe both edges in the same process. Don taught this method based on building a new set of stairs which he perfected in the 50’s housing boom when all stairs were built on the job. The the clamping pressure exerted by Kreg self tapping pocket screws makes for extremely strong and tight glue joints on edge joined material. Once I’m satisfied that it’s a good fit, I use a block to drive the skirt home for the final fit. I’m a mother of three (soon to be four!) Great, just great. Are you still in Montrose PA? Some of the brads would run out and off the skirt, but the others would come in behind and finish up the markings. Thank you so much for this! My problem now is the 10 steps above the landing that go from the basement to the first floor. My English major trained brain is still trying to figure out why this works with risers and treads never being exactly the same. The system above works great! I’m not sure. Carl. Or perhaps better still, to communicate a bit more clearly what is needed. Independent testing found that a pocket screw joint failed at 707 pounds when subjected to a shear load while a comparable mortise and tenon joint failed at 453 pounds - meaning that the pocket screw joint was approximately 35% stronger. If you’re attempting to scribe a skirt for the first time, here’s my best advice: get a piece of scrap that will cover two or three steps, run through the process I describe, and confirm you get a good fit. Wood Shaper Cutters - Carbide Shaper Cutters and Accessories. Finally, the highly compressed screws stay in the workpiece permanently; it's like being able to leave your project clamped solidly together - forever. Reply; phil February 7, 2015. I wanted to ask a clarification question on an earlier post above where Ray was answering Keith’s question about installing skirt board on an already carpeted set of stairs. He was also a very gifted master stair builder. I have the same door at the top problem. Thanks so much for the reminder to use the tallest and widest step. Edge-joining (without bar clamps). What do you do with the varying different heights of the skirting board if it has top and central moulding? Great man, teacher and tradesman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing that throws me off is after he scribed all the treads (horizontal scribes), he cut the last scribe so the skirt would rest on the floor. UNTIL it dawned on me that we would be tracing the step below for each line. After I graduated, I asked Don Zepp if I could sit in on his theory classes. thanks again. I am a DIYer and love learning new techniques and tricks. Do you have a lesson in how to close in a stringer? If you just go with the bottom one and it is a short one then in the corner on the back of the tread meets the riser you may have to add a piece. Thanks for posting this! Stair nosing adds beauty to your home while absorbing much of the stair case traffic. Currently I am thinking about making a scribe which offsets to the side by the distance from bottom step to the wall and then doing something similar at the top with a mitre in the middle. Had almost abandoned the idea of skirting the stairs I’m working on but now I know it’s possible with simple, careful steps. That makes a hard job easy. Edging - Pocket hole joinery pulls edging up tight against table tops and countertops - and keeps it there. Thank you, Norm and Don Zepp for a wonderful method of installing the skirt board. Loved the article and will help me add a skirt to some existing carpeted stairs, if I can solve another problem. 3) I had a bunch of photos of a skirt board I had installed that I should share with others. Phil: The scribe line for A IS for A, you’re not seeing it. Thanks so much for making this kind of help available. Now retired, Free Shipping. No one can ask for more. Curves - Ever try to clamp a curve? I often look at Don’s picture I have posted on my bookcase at home and still can’t believe how he could crosscut a 1×12 perfectly square with a hand saw and no line to follow. The once I cut the bottom of the board to lay on the floor, the part that faced the trim will now butt to the top riser. Your order will come with a return form with convenient instructions, or you may send your returns directly to Returns Department, Rockler Woodworking and Hardware, 4365 Willow Drive, Medina, MN 55340. I just took off carpet from floors and stairs. Traditional joinery methods usually involve milling both parts of the joint - cutting a mortise and a tenon, for example. Penny in Colorado, Can’t…can’t build a wall. Todd Details. Glad you mentioned the trial run with a short piece of scrap too, I think I will need it! Are there folks out there who have a term for this process? I was very pleased to see Don’s method described so well. We should connect sometime. But this idea of Scribing “If” you have an older home that has no Skirting is time consuming. High compression pocket hole joints will give you squeak-free stairs every time and you won't have to set a single nail. I had a series of flights of stairs in a new house where the treads and risers were installed before the baseboard detail was decided upon. Thanks for sharing. When you setup your “scribe stick,” be sure to use the rise of the TALLEST step and the run of the DEEPEST tread (you can even add a little more to be safe). Thanks, After you have one comment approved, all of your subsequent comments will appear immediately. 1. Well written article that offers an easy, yet elegant, solution to the problem and opens the door to solving so many other ‘like’ issues. I sure wish I had know about this great trick. With the self-tapping screws the system uses, there's no need to drill a pilot hole. After I’ve scribed the risers and nosings, I pull the skirt off the wall and I set it on some horses. I’m working on a remodel now and would like to add a skirt board under the bottom of the last six treads. Regards, I’ve been fortunate to have spent time around some of the best tradespeople and craftsmen in the business. We were all very blessed to have studied under such a great man. Pocket hole joinery suggestions from Kreg, to help you start thinking "outside the box." Who is that young guy with the dark hair in the photos? any thoughts? The speed and reliability of the technique have made it a favorite in furniture manufacturing and cabinet shops for decades. Thick x 2-1/8 in. Soooo, am I an idiot? Wondering if you have any suggestions on how to add a skirt board to closed stairs that have a 180 degree turn with steps around the turn that are placed on radials. Likewise, if one tread is 1/16” higher than the rest, the scribe mark will tell you to remove that much more waste stock, which would otherwise have kept the finished piece from settling into place on the rest of the treads. I was very pleased to read the first version of this article a few months ago. I believe that Don would be very pleased to see you passing on his knowledge. He then began to scribe the risers (vertical scribes). Todd Murdock I have thought about doing an article on that…. It may not pass building regulations. Wm. I typically make one light pass to “set” the initial line, and then follow up with a couple more passes to really engrave the line in the skirt board. When all the steps are marked out, I break out the saw…. Now I measure all just to be sure. But when I took on that skirt job, it was clear that a one-step process would not work. No need to tape and worry about getting paint on the new stairs! I have faced repair and re model work that brings several different skills and methods together for one such task. This scribe technique is pretty cool. Two and a half hours TOTAL from start to finish!!! But in order to scribe the risers and nosings, the skirt has to be on the correct X axis, which the author can do once he has made the bottom cut on the skirt. Art Director, THISisCarpentry.com, Todd, _ Gary. Very slick and easy to apply . Thank you, “If the treads differed in height… Would you than (sic) have to change the height of the brad for each tread?”. Construction Technology – Masonry. You should consider a video for general consumption by we DIYers that will reference your site, which, incidental, is a true wealth of expert wood working knowledge. Pocket hole joinery isn't new. Would I gain anything by taking a utility knife and narrowly cutting carpet away from the edging by the stringer, rather than cutting a square notch where the nosing, carpet and skirt board meet? Do I need to change the approach or follow these instructions regardless. All the comments make this sound fool proof. That’s right! Rugs by Type Shag Rugs Outdoor Rugs Handmade Rugs Washable Rugs Kids & Tweens Rugs Door Mats Stair Treads Kitchen Rugs & Mats. In short, if you can operate a drill, you can make a perfect pocket hole joint in a matter of minutes. However, if you are dealing with shoddy carpentry (from previous builder), wouldn’t you have to relocate the scribe point for each tread (horizontally)? I darkened the scribes lines using a pencil to make them more visible in the photos. Read our comment policy for more information. Great article. And I am so glad to finally have finished stairs after 25 years in our home. So in some ways, I double dipped my trade education. There is a door at the top of the steps. Thanks so much for both the original article as well as this one. ... Kreg ACS-SAW Adaptive Cutting System Plunge Saw. My question is is it better to install the skirt board before retreading the stairs or after? Great article !! He also said he agrees that after the fact this is smart. In 1982, he and his wife, Bev, moved to Montrose, PA, where he continued to run his own construction business. Exactly the instructions and advice that I needed. Thanks. Great article. Been doing it this way for years. Any interest in a road trip? I don’t think there was a plan in place that the stringers would be scribed-in, but I would plan to do this from the beginning. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. Any insight from a professional would be appreciated though as I am just a DIY’er. Find some stiff quality cardboard and rip it down to the size of your skirt stock and go through these steps and perfect your scribe to stairs. Craig Sommerfield's simple solution was to design a jig with metal drill guides pre-set to the best angle and entry point for a pocket hole, and to make it quick and easy to get the jig positioned and clamped onto a workpiece in just the right spot. Makes me want to strap on my belt again and start scribing stairs just for the pure self-indulgent enjoyment of doing good work. The only thing that throws me off is after he scribed all the treads (horizontal scribes), he cut the last scribe so the skirt would rest on the floor. (excuse my english i’m french from quebec canada! This may seem counter intuitive when you are dealing with variable tread heights and widths, but it is essential for this system to work. He’s saying upfront it’s easier and faster to put in the skirt, THEN the stair treads. He was that sure of this method. And why? Knowledge and application saves time! They're quite expensive to purchase but much cheaper to make, and they aren't overly difficult to construct. Also, I found that the little OOK nails, the black ones with the brass, knurled collars, from the picture hanging kits made great sharp and reusable scribers. My stairs require a 18’6″ skirt-board. You will need to measure each overhang on the treads to finish the layout. How do you scribe the nose part on an old stair case if you don’t have a Spare tread or material to act as the nose template, Our daughter bought a 1800’s farmhouse and we have been updating it. I really appreciate it. It may clear up some of the confusion. When he cut the bottom, he essentially dropped all the tread scribe down a step. Treads and risers risk more shrinkage due to the direction of the grain when installed. Use this valid 50% off Amazon promo code to save on your Prime order. ... KREG KMA3200 Shelf Pin Drilling Jig. I am an average (at best) DIYer and this method worked excellent for me. Thanks. Once you select a file, it will be uploaded and attached to the end of your comment. The timing of this learning lesson is uncanny, thank you. Using a circular saw and the diagram at the right, divide the 2-by-4-foot plywood into three parts. As the manufacturer of the Kreg jig puts it, the uses for pocket hole joinery are only limited by the users imagination. Free Shipping. When the skirt board bottom is cut and the board slid down, now that cut line for A is on the same horizontal plane as the tread for A. Yeah. Today there's a whole range of Kreg Jig packages, from ultra-affordable kits with just the most important features to the most complete system you're likely to find anywhere - the Kreg K3 Master System. Hours: Mon-Sat: 7:00am to 8:00pm. It always comes out superclean ..However I will most certainly take on this scribe technique. Then once the board is cut, it will be slid into place, exactly matching to it. The first time I came across a rise to be a little different I adjusted. Jon, I have been educated. Pocket hole joinery with the Kreg system a fast and simple 2-step process: drill a hole, and screw the parts together. Can I trace the completed board on to another board for the opposite side. Most stairs are pretty uniform so it won’t be an issue but I have run into some that were a half inch off and had to recut because of it not reaching in the corner. We have used this 2 more times. This a fantastic lesson I understand completely Details. If you’re happy with the one side, you’re probably getting the technique down. Cabinet frames, face frames and carcases are among the most popular applications for pocket hole joinery. In the same boat John. Don Zepp would have been proud of you – passing the baton to future generations of craftsmen! You have to remove enough material so that the scribed piece fits into the deepest recess of the profile you’re trying to match. Yes, I realize (as stated earlier) that you are effectively tracing the step below the one you are working on but what if the step below had a rise of 7″ and the next one had a rise of 7 1/8″? Any ideas? We're sure you'll come up with a few ideas of your own. Learning your craft in the world of trades is a unique proposition. The steel self-tapping screws the Kreg system uses are much stronger than the wood fasteners they replace - dowels, tenons, biscuits, etc. round, so I used a 1″ hole saw to cut the nose on the skirt. I’ve built a lot of homes for others as a developer, and framed houses when I was a youngster, but haven’t personally done a lot of stair work. Great thorough article. Apart from adding an extra step, that almost always means both parts have to be cut with extreme accuracy so they'll line up properly when the joint is assembled. If not, what do you guys think works best: If there isn’t already a term for it, I guess I’d lean towards that last descriptor. The scribe’s mark will then be that much lower on the skirt: If one tread is 1/16” lower than all of the other treads, the scribe mark will reflect that, and tell you to remove that much less waste stock right there. I was just doing this two weeks ago for a stair that they forgot to space the carriage away from the wall on. He then began to scribe the risers (vertical scribes). The bottom of the counterbore (the "pocket hole") sits about 1/2' back from the edge being joined and provides room for the head of the screw. What do you do when one side of the stairway does not go to a floor? I carried a set of large dividers instead of using the scribe stick. However, I did want to say to Keith that it could definitely work on carpeted stairs. Regards, Carl would like to give a tip of the hat to Todd Murdock for putting together the illustrations for Norm Yeager’s article—it’s uncanny how Todd’s illustrations mirror the photos Carl took 20 years ago. Carl started writing for the Journal of Light Construction in the late 80s, and is now a contributing editor at the magazine. Will this technique work when the span of stairway is longer than the skirt board that you can purchase (stairway is 19ft long) so you would need to butt two skirt boards together. Kreg mcmahon April 17, 2011. Before it was above it, and now it’s alongside it. After all of the cuts have been made, though, he will slide it back along the X axis, until it has returned to the original Y axis. One question I have is rather than using a stick to scribe, why not use a block (say 8″ wide) and 2 or 3 brads so that you can scribe without worrying about how plumb the stick is? Any ideas how to join pieces together seamlessly? DP, thank you soooo much !!! My stair risers are very inconsistent heights, and this method worked like an absolute charm, accommodating all irregularities. I am very pleased to come across this site for I am one of Zepp’s carpenters that was graced with his ability to do any aspect of woodworking from framing, stairs, cabinetwork, and roofing! I finally got a chance to put this method to work for me. I was fortunate to have attended a three-year, post-high school trade/tech school, the Williamson Free School of Mechanical Trades. We did have to tweak just a bit to perfect it but we are now sold on this process. The photos were a nice touch. I like to sharpen the brad point for a near razor-like scribe line. THAT would get you into the kind of trouble you refer to. Great instructions! That means you must use the largest rise and the largest run at a MINIMUM when scribing the stair. Perhaps some think the scribed skirt board is less work than scribing each tread to the skirt? But I would scribe the first step, running my scribe on the floor, make my cut, then proceed to scribe the entire stair case. This scribe method is such a slam-dunk. I can’t believe I stumbled onto your post this morning. As a working carpenter for the last 40 years I have used this method at different times in my career when necessary. 2) Norm’s explanation of the process was spot on. We place the skirting before the actual steps are put in place. Would anyone build a set of stairs in a new home with the plan of installing a skirt board with this scribe method rather than doing the typical 2×4 space between studs and stringers and “dropping in” the skirt board before risers and treads are installed? I also went there – 9W8 I was a “bricky” as well. Easy enough - but how do you consistently and accurately drill a counterbore and pilot hole at such a steep angle? …and I carefully cut just to the scribe line. I have no idea how we would have done it otherwise. I’m not a contractor, I’m a computer tech. Length Laminate Stair Nose Molding Stair Nosing is designed for installation Stair Nosing is designed for installation on the edge of a stair tread. Stairs - Attach risers and treads to each other and to stair stringers from underneath. The bottom three steps are triangular as you turn 90 degrees as you exit the last (bottom) step. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I am so appreciative of this article and each step-by-step picture and explanation. Luckily the mistakes were made on scrap pieces used to practice using this method. For those who battle OCD but still battle ‘good enuff’ after you have battled the clock. I have had my own business for a little over three years now. Great info for the DIYer. And guess how long it took! I used this on a remodel I’m doing for myself, and it works like a charm. My three-year trade degree was in masonry, but while I was there, I was always keeping an eye on the carpentry shop. I was a custom home builder for 25 years before ‘retiring’. Instead, I was looking forward to it, as scribing-in is one of my favorite tasks. Try this: imagine one extremely cupped tread. Save a board save a trees. Don’t builders these days typically leave a gap between the tread and the wall on purpose? Thanks. Would the same technique apply if a skirt was to be added underneath treads that are designed to stick out past a finished wall? Carl, I am definitely an amateur DIYer – this was my first project with a jigsaw!

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