villeroy & boch

I have seen them split tho. http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms-history/shotgun/side-by-side-shotguns.aspx, The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? they start to come apart where the windings are hammered together. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. I have an old Remington double barrel shotgun, the serial # is 218699. they start to come apart where the windings are hammered together. Damascus barrels were used well into the 1920's. and they always do it with smokeless loads. Dab a bit of white vinegar on a soft white cloth and rub an area underneath the forend (where it won't show). As well, since it Barrels made in many small pieces may just go back some day to many small pieces. http://sites.google.com/a/damascuskne.com/www/home. Usually you can look at them in the light and at the right angle, the pattern can still be made out. I have a Remington double barrel shotgun with exterior triggers, v on the but plate, very nice spirling on the barrels (I presume Damascus) . Reading the magazines of the time, there was often a letter from a reader asking about this and the answer was always the same modern, smokeless powder shells will blow-up the The top barrel is true Damascus, from a Purdey 10 gauge. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I looked at a set of blued damascus barrels for a fellow and when you rotated the barrels up and down you could hear the rust sliding You MUST REGISTER your REAL FIRST and LAST NAME as your login name. He asked about the 'twist wirel barrels' and I replied as follows: Can't tell much without pictures, but the 'wire barrel' is very likely what is often a name for 'Damascus Twist Steel'. When a Damascus or Twist barrel tube bursts, the break will run along a weld joint when the bands of iron and steel ribands are hammer forged together. Condition can be difficult for an amateur to describe. This is a new forum - so you must REGISTER to this Forum before posting; If your gun has no engraving, it very likely doesn't have Damascus barrels. A gun in this condition is a wall hanger. Please let us know what grade your L.C. When a fluid steel barrel bursts, it typically splits; the split will most often be parallel, or in line with the barrel tube. There's nothing wrong with shooting damascus barrels in good shape with the proper loads. I should have clarified that. If you have indicators you should have the gun checked. I know rifle barrels were bored and reamed from a solid blank, I've seen the tooling used and it does not look like fun. Damascus barrels have a distinctive, irregular pattern of short, streak-like marks around the barrel. While damascus steel gun barrels were made in many countries, the barrel making industry in Belgium brought the art to its highest level. The threads were connected, heated and hammer-welded, the mandrel was removed and a barrel was formed. If it is not a set of factory parker barrels and the rib is not marked. Its most likely chambered for 2 1/2 or 2 5/8 shells. youd have to load your own and use very light loads.". Back then damascus barrels were thought a being sufficient and prettier (and they were. Damascus barrels have a distinctive, irregular pattern of short, streak-like marks around the barrel. Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the differance - Twain "If you know how many guns you own, you don't own enough!" I will put the 97 on my project list. Yes, BUT you MUST have it inspected by a competent, qualified gunsmith. One trick I've heard of to enhance the appearance of a Damascus barrel is to cold blue it, then use 0000 steel wool to remove it from the surface. Rust is bad but doesnt necessarily make it Due to the large amount of risk of a barrel blowing up after they said it was OK, and the large amount of technical work it would take for a gunsmith to understand how to judge a Damascus barrel, What i can't figure out is if it has damascus barrels or not, I have read that its not advisable to fire modern ammunition in an old shotgun with damascus barrels, and I would like to use this one to hunt with. You have been very helpful. Damascus barrels are weaker than modern barrels and are not designed for the high gas pressures created by modern ammunition. Witho read more If you are registered to the forum and keep getting logged I CANNOT recommend this one way or another, since it's not something I've ever done myself. Sanding will make the damascus pattern disappear ,heat up some vinagar and let barrel soak for a while in it, the pattern will come back, as far as I know Remington never used artifical damascus finishes, finish sand down to about 1500 grit ,buff and etch with acid, then clean with boiling water then rust blue according to directions, it's a learning expierence best of luck jrh55 I can't find any Model 1899. For the most part there isnt anything commercially available that is safe to shoot in a damascus barreled shotgun. I think you would definitely have a set of shoulders on you if you did it on a regular basis Course that was with old handpowered stuff. Second look for wear under the forarm. What I do know is that is it a Damascus Barrel, the 6542 serial number means it was built in or before 1887. I did mention corrosive priming in the second paragraph. This supposedly leaves blue in the grain but removes it from the surface. dfariswheel, Nov 6, 2010 It is relatively easy to remove a dent from a fluid-steel barrel, but not so with a Damascus barrel. How to tell if a barrel is Damascus Is there a test I could perform to tell if barrels on a gun are Damascus? I have been getting conflicting information that it may be a lot more than that. A thin metal sleeve was wrapped around a mandrel over which the barrel ribbons were wound. The gun matches the barrel as well as the spare barrel. If you have a Damascus barrel gun, dont shoot it. Suite 500, Troy, Michigan 48084 USA. Lefever Arms F Grade 10 Gauge with 30 Damascus Barrels Description: *** SOLD *** This Lefever F Grade 10 gauge could tell you some stories. Gentlemen, I am on the side of caution, I have not seen a damascus barrel fail and I damn well do not intend to shoot one (with any loads) and try my luck. Belgian gun barrel makers eventually took over nearly all of the damascus gun barrel manufacturing in the world. For kicks, I once loaded some shells with black powder and used it at a practice trap shoot! To tell which look at the bottom of the barrels or the watertable and the grade marking is stamped there, a 1 for Number 1 grade, a 2 for Number 2 grade and so on. Several sources on the web noted, however, that for Damascus barrels at least the initial application of this solution should be diluted 50% with distilled water. The barrels are blued and appear to be steel but a gunsmith looking at them said they might be damascus. I can direct you to legions of Damascus owners who routinely shoot their guns. You guys need to get out more often; and certainly need to expand your knowledge base on vintage American double guns! If you have a gun that is choked Cylinder/Skeet, chances are pretty Reactions: sharps4590. Damascus barrels are identified from the beautiful and striking patterns often produced by the alternating layers of iron and steel. Mag particle testing, sometimes called magnafluxing can tell you if you have indication of surface defects. Click Here Is there a test I could perform to tell if barrels on a gun are Damascus? Definitely get it to a reputable gunsmith. Welcome to the new PGCA Forum! Acid etching was often used to accentuate these patterns. Bill Fiorini used to make damascus barrels specifically for modern smokless powders. The trick is to have the barrel properly asessed to make sure barrel wall thicknesses are well above minimum tolerances. Incidentally, I have an early Parker hammer gun that suffered a similar fate. It normally took seven feet of rod to create one foot of barrel. and they always do it with smokeless loads. It has double triggers, extractors, and an automatic safety. He first made up a rectangle bar of pattern damascus say 1/4 X 3/4". Yours probably has their "Compressed Fluid Steel" barrels, which are forged solid steel. Trust me I get out plenty, And I know enough about Damascus barreled shotguns to admire thier beauty and only shoot low pressure BP loads in them, if I shoot them at all. It can be seen how the large mass of the three twisted rods has been forged into the smaller cross sectional mass of the riband. For the most part there isnt anything commercially available that is safe to shoot in a damascus barreled shotgun. is new - please read the following: If you have an older Below are photos of an actual damascus barrel demonstration piece. Interesting. Worked very well and brought several comments. The bottom barrel is twist steel, from an Ithaca 12 gauge. I would like to know the age, and value of this gun. If you fire a modern smokeless load in a damascus steel barrel it will unravel just like in the cartoons when elmer fudd shoots his shotgun after bugs stuffed a carrot in the muzzle.. kaboomsproiiing daaammmmiiiiittt! Thanks. It is relatively easy to remove a dent from a fluid-steel barrel, but not so with a Damascus barrel. So, if you find a blued damascus barrel, be careful and make sure the ribs aren't loose and you don't have corrosion . Damascus barrels will show a pattern, although it can be covered with bluing or the pattern can be simulated. he then wraped this bar into a spirel tube that the center hole was just larger than a piece of solid stress proof shafting. All the others, Grades 2 through Grade 7 have either Twist or Damascus or Fine Damascus barrels. 2 3/4 will fit just fine but when fired the crimp will open up over the forcing cone and will raise pressure a good bit. The process of forging a spiral welded damascus gun barrel.By: Master Bladesmith, Steve Culver of Meriden, KansasSeptember, 2012 I have several Damascus barreled side by sides that have barrel walls over 30 thousandths that I enjoy shooting all the time for 5 stand and sporting clays. If you are not a PGCA Member, we do not allow posts selling, offering or brokering firearms and/or parts; and Examine all parts of the barrel including the barrel flats and ribs. The barrels are blued and appear to be steel but a gunsmith looking at them said they might be damascus. Mine is marked "fluid steel". Barrel constrictions, or choke, in most of these side-by-side shotguns were Improved Cylinder, Modified or Modified/Full. Damascus barrels are weaker than modern barrels and are not designed for the high gas pressures created by modern ammunition. The chambers will be too short for 2 3/4 shells. In the Model 1889, only the higher grades (engraved) had Damascus, which was considered a classy and valuable feature. A gun in this condition is a wall hanger. barrels on Damascus shotguns. You can either shoot blackpowder, or low pressure smokeless loads. The process that many of us know is the Crolle Damascus pattern-welded barrels. I am confused. Do Damascus barrel fail because of the manufacture technique, yes. But the first test should be reproofing. The second aspect to check is whether or not the barrels have been dented, or if they have had dents removed. Not your gun shop down the block, but someone who knows how to do a proper bore inspection with a bore scope and examine the damascus for pitting, etc. Hello Jack - You have already been given some great advice (Drew is an expert on Damascus barrels) and you are doing the prudent thing to have everything checked out first, even though that is not the easy way. 21046 was made in the mid -1890s and has a fair amount of residual case coloring on the frame, topstrap, and the sideplates which are marked Lefever Arms Co.. Forum, Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 3290 W. Big Beaver Rd. I'm Sorry Chuck, the gun is not a Parker. Unfortunately, there are very few qualified gunsmiths how can really tell if a Damascus barrel is sound or not. youd have to load your own and use very light loads. Get a good magnifying glass and look real close. There may be a chemical or other means but I'm not certain of that. will be your reaction. If you know someone who subscribes to "Double Gun Journal" there was a lengthy article in it a few years ago regarding refinishing damascus barrels. "Owning a firearm doesnt make you armed, anymore than owning a guitar makes you a musician.". Removing a dent from a Damascus barrel will create a weak spot on it. The blue should fade and a pattern appear, but keep that area well oiled thereafter or it will rust. And sorry if the rest of the world isnt as smart as you are Mr. Archer. It is a complete set. I have a number of Damascus guns that are hardly wall hangers. Back in the black powder shotgun days, barrels were formed around an The edges of the spiral ribbon were then welded together to form a tube. JavaScript is disabled. To add to the confusion, some companies made shotguns with an imitation damascus design on the barrels. Finish intentionally removed, and everything cold-blued in an attempt to hide the fact that it is Damascus barreled. There is a Model 1889, which was Remington's last hammer double gun, but I didn't think any Remington double went that high in serial number, even combined*. Both have Damascus barrels but almost all of the beautiful steel that Damascus is known for is faded. Note that smokeless powder was in vogue by 1890. If you have a Damascus barrel gun, dont shoot it. Since there are shotguns that are newer and better made, it's just in the gun safe . You can check by removing the forearm and Removing a dent from a Damascus barrel will create a weak spot on it. X-ray test will tell you if there is internal imperfections. I have seen them unwind. The barrel may burst slightly ahead of the chamber, crippling the shooters hand or forearm. Smith is and if you I have seen re-blued Damascus barrels where the pattern was hardly visible. No. This particular Barrel Brown offers the advantage that the surface to be browned does not have to be entirely free of oil, as the formula cuts through that. I've never seen a damascus barrel unwind. There appears to be a much art as science in doing the job right. Is there anyway to bring back those beautiful stripes? Total war does not determine a winner, It detemines who is left. out: Please Best idea is to keep it as a wall hanger. You can tell twist or Damascus barrels by the pattern on the barrels that spirals the length of the barrels. Thanks, Bert. These are thought to have been used by damascus gun barrel merchants to advertise their products. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! First, what does the rib say, assuming it's a Parker? From what I've been able to figure that means its a model 1899. "I have seen them unwind.

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