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It IDENTIFIES WHO ARE GODS PEOPLE. 3 stresses that point by mentioning it at least three times: Everyone by law had to worship the golden image when the music played. These are closely related rather than contradictory teachings. From whence doth Dr. Taylor derive this? (Dan. 8:10-11. He sees 24 elders seated on thrones around the throne of God. Mention "Blue Law" to anyone under 55, and you will draw a blank stare. The RCC teaches that the sacredness (sanctification) of the Sabbath has been transferred (by the authority it has vested itself with) to the first day of the week. ", "In Daniel Eight, Jesus continual ministry was taken from Him and the place of his sanctuary was cast down does refer to Christs sanctuary ministry in heaven.". Amen. Lets turn back for a moment to Exodus 31, beginning with verse 12. Sabbath is the third rail of Adventists: everything else may be discussed and various positions presented, but Sabbath is the central pillar of Adventism, just as it was for Judaism. Unleavend Bread commenced after Passover and continued for a week. Good luck in trying to get a "sunday" law through congress. Is it not because the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath so you make those decisions. His work gave the scientific validation to the political and philosophical belief in Atheist HumanismCarl Marx in 1844 publishing his Philosophical Papers of 1844 andthis work developed the political theory and social revolution based on Atheism. You do an excellent job of explaining the problems with trying to take apocalyptic visions literally. ~~Matthew 12 New American Standard Bible (NASB), 12 At that [a]time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. They lose their special claim to fame as sabbath keepers. Our one Lord is Lord of the Sabbath; and we are its intended beneficiaries. Example "~~Red oak is known to be a more porous wood and therefore more likely to leak." At least someone else seems to be able to make some sense from what I wrote 8-). And once again, I fail to see how your comments are helpful to the discussion. But the world doesnt realize that it makes any difference whether we love God or not. Planet Heaven? The word for "make void" is katargeo, which is also found here: It is therefore fairly clear that Paul affirms that part of the law, the ceremonial laws, was abolished, but part of the law, the 10 Commandments, was not. That is if we 'keep' God's law will we somehow leave God indebted to us? Nowhere in their entire history is there a separation of the Law into "moral" and "ceremonial." Im embracing the context; that after having explained that the Sabbath was made for man and not vice versa, that He said Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. Im acknowledging, embracing, and understanding that whenever Jesus is recorded as having used the term Son of man He referenced Himself, and that also (like therefore) is another one of those sentence modifying , sentence connecting adverbs, meaning in addition (to), or as well (as); which means the Son of man is Lord as well as of the Sabbath. "Rest" was what the Fourth Commandment indicated, nothing about worship. 4 For he said in a certain place of the seventh day thus: And God rested the seventh day from all his works9 Therefore there is left a sabbatisme for the people of God. The early hymn in Philemon also never said that Jesus was God but "in the form of God" who "God exalted" but "in the likeness of men." If progsda thinks I have misrepresented these passages then he/she/they should offer his/her/their own exposition of how these OT antecedents relate to his/her/their favorite NT passage. And the uniting of Italy and the abolishing of the Papal States in 1870, that's basic stuff that no one disputes. Divinity was attribute to Jesus AFTER the NT closed. Really? In the Gospel for this Sunday (cf. means enforcing Sunday rest by civil legislation, and enshrining Catholic doctrine about which day is the Lord's Day in the laws of the land, thereby uniting church and state. And found within this context is also the issue of working Sundays, which concerns not only believers, but touches everyone, as an ethical choice. Further, since Rome sacrificed the martyrs thinking it was doing God service, why wouldn't they end up under the altar of burnt offering? Ill ask yet again, was yours an original theory; or was it someone elses? And when Hebrews says that 'the veil' IS 'the flesh' of Jesus, how could this possibly be a door or curtain in a literal building on your planet heaven? For John, the tabernacle symbolises those who dwell in heaven, in the same sense that Paul says believers are 'raised up into the heavenly places.' Since the Sabbath was made to benefit all humanity; there are attendant blessings that accompany obedience. What distinguished it from Tuesday or Thursday? He was both Son of God and Son of Man. This verseis given in response to the question in the previous verse, " How long will this abomination that makes desolate be allowed to continue? " which tell us that there is a heavenly sanctuary of which the earthly was but a copy. So the obvious conclusion would be that these seven lamps are on earth where their respective churches reside, not in a temple in heaven. The story also reported that he said that not working on Sundays was an "ethical choice" for both believers and non-believers. The language is quite plain and strong: . And the sole word used throughout the NT for wine isoinos. The Lord God who gave the First Covenant, rescinded the First Covenant,because it gave the death penalty to all created. That's the subject I am talking about anyway. In case you are confused as to what spirit to which the New Covenant refers and what law it is contrasted with, Galatians 4 repeats the contrast: "Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. That particular bet is beneath Mr. Foster. Interpreting the visionary eschatology of Revelation and finding Sabbath as both the seal and persecution for Sabbath believers has no recognized theological support from any but Adventists. So those are the elements with which we are understood as being one with Him, partaking (having in 'common') of His divine nature (2Peter 1.4). The Gospel writers looked back to their scriptures and found various prophecies that they they reinterpretedas foretelling Jesus; but they were never initially prophesying something far into the future but that had a meaning at the time they were written. Francis appears to be advocating that everyone else take that day off to rest. Based on the 21 in the upper right hand corner, and the 41 at the bottom, I'm guessing this letter was part of a criminal case record or discovery for such a case, but I have no idea where to find it other than on the jacket of this book. So yes, there is a veil, and Hebrews says that it is 'His flesh.'. Daniel Nine's Prophecy for example. But later God declared that there would be a New Covenant that would replace the old. Water was made for mans sustenance benefit. The Bible continues this specific contrast ((between being led by the 10 Commandments or led by the spirit)in Galatians 4:23-31 and Hebrews 12:18-24, saying, in both places that we, under the New Covenant, are not to look to (be led by) Mt. Therefore Question: When will there be "Sunday legislation"? If I had been a first-century tradesman or shopkeeper operating a business out of my house or shop, and if I closed my business Friday afternoon to observe the Sabbath and re-opened on Sunday morning, that would have been the natural time to determine my "increase" from the previous week's operations, and then set aside money to pay my bills and for my tithes and offerings. There is no way, no shape, no how that Lucifer will be in heaven. The city's gates were locked from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday and allowed none to enter or exit. (If we are first of all dead with Him and raised to be living with Him, ie. But to the extent that they do not then it is the hallmarks of Adventism (or possibly our understanding of said hallmarks?) "Protestants accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope ." I would ask the same from you for those of us who like to analyze questions from different perspectives. In either case this is a door between earth and heaven as I have previously written, not a door between two different heavenly compartments as you have claimed. Just a coincidence? The pope's statement is irrelevant in the U.S. because That is, again, why we are, through the Blood of Christ, "dead to the law. My theory is that some who scoff of course do not want Adventist eschatology to be accurate; and are more invested in it being invalidated (by any means) than some conservative Adventists are in having it confirmed or validated might even be. In John's vision of heaven there is no veil everything is in the same place. The Papacy is the most powerful and influential force in the world. To recap, I said: And Is or is there not a veil between separate chambers? Note the first page after the cover, which is actually the back of the jacket of the original book, is a June 29, 1971 letter written on Vatican Bank stationary ordering $950 million worth of "merchandise," which, as the book explains, convinced the mafia figures that Ledl's solicitation of counterfeit securities was legitimate. Was not the point of such instruction that we should always be ready? Several times in the book it refers to Jesus being directly in the presence of God. 11 Let us, then, press forward to enter this place of rest, or some of you might copy this example of refusal to believe and be lost. Don't jump to conclusions. Revelation 4:5. But since the disciples were son of man and the pharisees were son of man and Jesus was son of man, there was no special ownership indicated. At this point, after you have clearly stereotyped and misread things into my statements and my position that Ive never implied, I should let you off the hook. The Sabbath is integral to monotheism, just as the injunction to have one God, not make graven images and not take the Lord's name in vain. How else did the slain "souls" get under the altar? "What is dead is being LED BY the 10 Commandments as a way of being in covenant with Christ. There is nothing specific in Dan. If the Protestant reformers were basically wrong, why is Dr. Taylor a professing Protestant? While any evil is possible (Islamics may rule the world next year) the return of them is as farfetched in our commerce central world as the Islamic thing. Actually, we all know that Jesus made it clear who the Sabbaths Lord Is; but thats the problem is it not? If I recall correctly, 1870 was the third and final time the papacy lost its real estate after 1798, though maybe it was the second and final time. "For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." It should be noted that, per Matthew 16:13, He asked his disciples saying Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? His disciples were the audience; and one of them provided the correct answerwhich Jesus confirmed without equivocation. No one in John's day would have any question as to who was being referred to in Rev. If Jesus said, this hammer was made for man, man was not made for this hammer, and left it at that; you would actually be making some sense. We are who we are, God's creation, the Potter's pot, the sheep of the Shepherd, the adopted children of God, the family members of God the Father and thus the siblings of Jesus the Son of God and we know this through the Gospel of Jesus and because we know this, we do indeed love one another, thus testifying to the Gospel of Jesus as truth for all time. In other words they represent all of God's chosen people from both the OT and the NT, who are the worshipers of the true God. Actually, this is not so. If Jesus didnt intend to inform that the Sabbath was made for mans benefit, then what purpose does Progsda interpret the Sabbath being made for man to serve? And are all of these commands equally limited to the social arrangements within the twelve tribes? What if I were to ask, how many bodies has a head? the Apostle Paul who frequently employs this metaphor for the church (cf my previous comment). Or 'heaven proper' if you prefer. Hebrews does not say that there is not veil. (Now leaving aside all the modern archaeological evidence, or total lack thereof for the Exodus, and all of the evidence that the Pentateuch was only composed after teh Babylonian captivity) The preamble to the Decalogue is pretty specific as to the parties in this agreement. But that wasn't good enough for you. The words of the gentle-appearing Pope Francis are not biblical (cf. I mean, really, Progsda; do you think that Lord of the Sabbath was, for all practical purposes, a throw away line? By your line of reasoning God also has feathers in His wings like a mother bird and many other poetic allusions describing various aspects of God using earthly analogies. The Bible is our ace of trump. But we can love Him and others. Rather they said, at this Council of Laodicea: Christians must not Judaise by resting on the Sabbath (That, they said, is Jewish. Ive read your post several times and havent yet deciphered what your point is. 20:1). While their belief in the imminent return of Jesus to claim His own was laudable, Adventists must stop making excuses for their errors. who can forgive sins but God only? Just an off-hand question. You my friend are obviously not a historian. Really? "Fortunately there are ways of describing our devotion to the Seventh-day Sabbath that are utterly independent of the Torah. Jesus Christ Himself said that Sabbath is. Perhaps the simple concept of justification apart from the law just seems too easy. Whether it was capitalized depended on transcribing scribes who believed that it was referring to divinity in the NT. Re 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. Excellent observation, but it supports our position, not yours. A trinity of secularism includes Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, born in 1844. Predictions selectively identified after the fact do not provide much assurance of credibility. BibleNewsProphecy: The Red Heifer and the End of the World Why do we not take that text literally? The obvious question is what is restored or made right (nitsdaq) in Daniel 8:14? Hi Larry how are you? On the other hand I do interpret the heavenly host and the stars of heaven in Daniel 8:10 as a reference to Lucifer taking-out a substantial portion of the angels with him when he was separated from heaven. alludes to a legislated time of worship." Absolutely we need to let the Bible interpret itself, beginning with the immediate context of any passage. It is curious thoughwho tells you what you can or can't do on the Sabbath? 11:1 is measurable suggests that it now exists, and thus has been restored, which is the idea behind Zec. Carmel where there was a showdown between the Creator God and the sun god Baal in Elijah's day. 8:11-13. Thus, in both Lev. Do you spend time with your children?. Kindle This electronic version of the printed book which is available for only US$2.99. Pope Francis likens Sunday with what he calls the Jewish Sabbath. Indeed, the context of Col 1.18 is quite telling. Your insistence that Heb. Now why do we observe the Sabbath? Besides, there is only ever one type to the antitype. These earthly compartments teach us about heavenly things, but I do not envision any literal structural partition in heaven. to God (chapter 6) were a depiction of the same altar. Sometimes there is no single "right" answer. What is dead is being LED BY the 10 Commandments as a way of being in covenant with Christ. The church became a gentile church because the Jerusalem church disappeared from all historical records, after the temple fell in 70. It also makes no difference what day the pagans may have worshiped. Only we, as readers, are intended to see both meanings (if we are elightened enough to do so). So we have multiple allusions in Revelation to sun worship and even festivals to the sun god, but only in Rev. Serge, You think you are on firm ground with emphasising the continuing literalism fo the fourth commandment. What John sees as a lamb is then described as a lion. She wants this teaching enshrined in civil law. We need to understand that the sanctuary motif is not itself the object of the Bible its purpose is to teach us about the Divine and our human relationships with the Divine. And I can say that is true on this occasion also. You write: "~~The Sabbath was made for man, why; or for man to do what with?". During Unleavened Bread there was a special ceremony that always happened on the weekly Sabbath. If you try to make them all literal you end-up with very contorted beliefs and practices. But your position is problematic. One of my modes of learning is by asking questions and comparing different answers. And it is simply this: worship God, not man-made or invented spurious religious ideas and allusions. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 23 which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. GOD IS ONE, ALMIGHTY, OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT, OMNISCIENT, TRANSCENDENT, ALL IN ALL, HOLY, In His Multi-personality. What happens in heaven we partake of by faith. Pope Francis states that people should celebrate the Eucharist or Mass on Sunday. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience (Hebrews 4:3-6,9-11, NIV). ", Correction: "Further, to ensure (unless other sources are integrated into the interpretation) that what is referred to is clear, verse 9 reiterates that the lesser glory REFERENCED is "the ministry of condemnation" again the 10 Commandments.". Is your faith really based upon the truth or compromise? The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit or blame for the change. This Rock, The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997. It seems clear that John (another disciple and apostle) believed Jesus was Divine. Simply reading the various descriptions of the same event in the Gospels should be sufficient to demonstrate that there are many dissimilarities. Pope Francis confidant: Sunday Mass obligation isnt indispensable, it could fall Apr 28, 2020 In new interview, Abp. The Seventh-day Adventist Church has struggled from its inception with the meaning of 1844. Indeed, it is the closure of the markets on Sunday in western couontries that motivates some Jews and Moslems to support resting on Sunday. God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Looking up at Amazing Facts website the 1929 position is theirs. I wish you well. We will see you scoffers on the other side of the controversy to come. The logical fallacy in your line of reasoning is of course that Jews and Christians are worshipping the exact same Creatorwho, according to the scriptures that both Jews and Christians believe are from God, set apart a day at creation. Some of the tamid services were in the courtyard and some in the Holy place. Notice that Sabbath appears here as a verb before it appears later on as a noun. There is no need to worry about my ministry Bob. And God made the seventh day holy because on that day God Sabbathed. Because the "place of His (Christ's) sanctuary was cast down" the "money changers" had set up shop in it!". I see nothing in Dan. To my knowledge, Adventism generally has put the healing of the deadly wound in the future, not the here and now. Or if we are not in Jerusalem during those particular hours then He could care less about communing with us? These cannot all be taken literally or you will reduce the entire Apocalypse to incoherent gibberish. One can search through the entire NT and not find any indication that either tithing or Sabbath was given to gentile Christians to be observed. (That to which you refer is nicely summed up in this Wikipedia reference: http://www.ask.com/wiki/Origins_of_Christianity?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown&an=apn&ap=ask.com#Emergence_of_Rabbinic_Judaism_and_Christianity). And surely as salvation is independent of the Torah, so Sabbath celebration is and for the same reasons.". How many biblical predictions have not come true? I would suggest the opposite is the case. 9:17 shows us that Daniel understood Dan. When we let the analogies and metaphors become the substance we begin to create God in our own image and heaven in the image of earth. Nothing in the context of Dan. What am I missing here? With all this arguing going on,why would we expect anyone to want to know more about Him, towant to love Himor keep the Sabbath? I take no position regarding whether these various beings are structurally segregated within heaven, or whether they exist in full and unfettered fellowship with one another. The intellectual incoherence or cognitive dissonance that must attend those who do profess Adventism yet disbelieve its eschatological doctrine is uncomfortable; or at least so it would seemespecially as they see and hear things like that which is referenced in this piece, or the previous intonation by proxy that there is no more need for Protestantism. But the quote in question must be referring to the heavenly sanctuary. Later writers generally assume that their audience is familiar the historical sanctuary narrative. And why can't a single word refer to both fermented and unfermented wine? 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. Can we agree, then, that there is a temple in heaven with an ark that contains the law of God? Thats about par for the 'progressive' course. He then looked at the verses himself. Question: When are certain Adventists going to grow up and quit making the silly statement that the Roman Catholic Church"Changed Sabbath to Sunday?" Regarding COVID, the Pope says, The world will never It portrays the full majesty of the Trinity, and of their various Divine roles. Exit the Mobile Edition (view the standard browser version). Is there a pot of manna and/or a budding almond branch in the heavenly wooden box overlaid with gold that John and/or Ellen saw? The concept of lordship is your issue. Holy Sunday! Second of all, the Antithesis part of the Sermon on the Mount does not abrogate the Law, it suggests an exposition and expounding of the Law.

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